David Hodgson on Jazz, Toronto, and Music as Art: A ‘Music in Toronto’ Interview with Rebecca Proch
Sounds | Rebecca Proch
Wednesday evening, Poetry West.
A trumpet rests between two candles at the bar where I am seated, my eyes still adjusting to the dim light as I nurse my one drink of the night — it’s a weekday, after all. The band is almost done setting up, and people steadily flow in, quickly casting off their layers as friendly chatter rises. The waiter asks me if I want egg white in my whiskey sour. (I say yes, you’ll be happy to know.)
Almost unannounced, the first blow of saxophone floods the room; all eyes and ears turn. A few cheers erupt. David stands in the front, his foot tapping rhythmically. Jonathan is on bass, Mateo on drums, and Andrew on guitar. And we’re all swept into their world for three mesmerizing sets.
REBECCA PROCH: Hi David, thank you so much for sitting down with me today. I had such a great time at your show last night at Poetry!
This interview is the first of a new Howl Magazine series called ‘Music in Toronto,’ in which we hope to highlight local artists and promote Toronto’s music scene. So, I hope you’ll forgive me, but I have to start with the obvious: What drew you to a career in music? And to jazz, specifically?
DAVID HODGSON: Yes! Okay, so I’ll give you a bit of a rundown. I started taking piano lessons when I was about 5. I was raised on a lot of folk and bluegrass, seventies rock, acoustic guitar music... Music came really naturally in a way. I loved playing music, learning songs, composing music. In Grade 5, I was given a sheet with a bunch of images of musical instruments, and I was told to pick one. And my mom was actually the one to say, “You should play saxophone!” I started on alto saxophone, and then switched to tenor saxophone a year later. It’s still my main instrument.
And as far as jazz, and my interest in that, I think a lot of it comes from my older brother, who’s nine years older than I am. He played guitar pretty seriously when he was younger and was very rooted in blues, R&B, and jazz as well. He got me hooked onto this Bill Evans album, Portrait in Jazz. I remember first listening to it, and not understanding it at all. But it planted a seed, I guess!
In high school, I joined the jazz band. I became a bit more exposed to the history and the repertoire of jazz — the style, the feeling, the idea of music as art. I met a bass player at my high school, Evan Gratham, who I’m still great friends with, and is also a U of T alum. I remember getting this book, called the Real Book, a collection of jazz standards. Along with a piano player, we formed a little trio, and started learning the songs, listening to recordings of them, getting a bit deeper into music, I guess. I started learning about improvisation, and the language of improvisation in jazz, transcribing solos... It was a very natural progression, to continue down this trail, this path of music.
When I got to my later years of high school, I was accepted into some other honour ensembles. I got to travel. I came to Toronto for the first time. I also started doing workshops in the summer, at Stanford, or Berklee in Boston. The level of talent was way higher than anything I had experienced before, and it showed me that if I actually want to be good as something, there’s a lot people who are good, which was both inspiring and intimidating.
This was when I realised I had to commit to make this passion into my career. To get to a level where you play an instrument as an extension of yourself, you have to put in a lot of time.
So at that point, I realised that music was what I wanted to pursue! I decided on going to U of T, and moving to Toronto. I had a great experience studying music here. I mean, great faculty, great ensembles. I’ve graduated — I finished in 2021 with a Bachelor’s in Jazz Performance and a minor in Art History! Now, I play shows, teach some private students, do a bit of travelling for music. I’m also navigating music and performance within the post-COVID world, which is still something I’m figuring out.
RP: It’s really interesting to see how music has been this big part of your life for, well, most of your life. And how natural of a progression it’s been. On that note, you mentioned playing the instrument as an extension of yourself. Can you elaborate on that? Is that how you feel when you’re playing?
DH: When I’m playing music, regardless of the instrument, I am expressing myself — to varying degrees. Saxophone is the instrument I’ve put the most time into, so when I play, I feel like there are the fewest number of barriers between what I hear in my head and what comes out of the instrument. Whereas with other instruments, I might have to still think about technique, or be thinking about how I’m doing things.
But with all of these, I still feel like I’m using this tool, the instrument, to create sound, which is to create something that wasn’t there before. “Extension of myself” — that’s a lifelong goal! I pick up the saxophone, and sometimes it doesn’t cooperate at all. It’s like a science experiment; in the way that every instrument works, you never really know what you’re gonna get sometimes.
When I think about the instrument as an extension of myself, I also think about trust, and that’s also really important. Meaning, when I’m playing an instrument, I have to trust myself enough to make mistakes, to recognise flaws and things I want to be working on, improving on. Trying to remove shame, the idea of ego, or self judgment. This all ties into self-extension.
RP: For our readers who aren’t familiar with the genre, how would you describe jazz in a few words? What is it to you?
DH: I feel there is this sort of misconception — it’s almost a meme in a way — that jazz musicians just play wrong notes, or that it’s some pseudo-intellectual nonsense. This ties into why I’m not a huge fan of the term ‘jazz’ in general.
But for me, I think jazz is freedom.
Of course there are still certain musical conventions to adhere to when playing with other people. But one of the musical conventions in jazz is that you can improvise; you can have fun, you can take a melody and play it unlike it’s ever been played before. You can make it totally your own, and use it as a template for self-expression.
I love jazz because improvisation is such an integral part of the musical performance. A lot of things aren’t predetermined, like solo orders, or how you might end or start a song. All these things are opportunities to be creative. And I love that. I find it really fascinating how you can use those areas of the unknown to communicate with one another, and how those things may be received by an audience.
RP: But you’re also not a huge fan of the term [‘jazz’] itself?
DH: Yeah, it’s a complicated term. The origins of the word ‘jazz’ are sort of unknown — there are a lot of theories, and a lot of them usually have to do with things that are less than pleasant. Connotations between music and sexuality for instance, tied to the kind of venues where musicians were playing in the early 20th century, and the suppression of those developing this music. And these terms were typically coined by critics and record label executives who have historically always been White people labelling what is a Black art form. This terminology was promoted by these people in power, many of whom arguably abused and took advantage of the musicians working for them. Thinking about navigating these roots, especially as a White musician in this art form, means a lot to me and is something I’m still kind of figuring out.
I know a lot of musicians don’t like the word, like how Duke Ellington never referred to his music as jazz. Some have totally embraced the label, and have made it their own in certain ways. But like with any label, it comes with certain connotations. Many different styles of music influence my playing, so why would I confine myself to this hundred-year-old term? But I also understand that not everybody is a musician, and that the easiest way to describe the music I play is ‘jazz’. A lot of what I’ve just said, as far as terminology and history — not everybody knows that. So it’s complicated!
RP: As you figure out who you are as a musician, then, who would you say has been your biggest inspiration? And is there an artist today who we should look out for, in your opinion?
DH: I discovered my first serious saxophonist inspiration, Seamus Blake, when I was in high school. I remember hearing a recording of him for the first time, and literally standing up, and being totally starstruck. For maybe four years, I’d say Seamus Blake was a really big inspiration for me, and somebody who I looked up to. I wanted to sound like him, I wanted to play like him, I was interested in his career trajectory — like, how do I get to these places?
Now, I’m into a lot things. Within the past two years, I’ve been trying to start from the beginning, to check out saxophonists who were playing in the ‘30s: Lester Young, Coleman Hawkins, Ben Webster, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane… Or Pharaoh Sanders, who just passed away a couple weeks ago.
As far as jazz, I’ve been really into piano players recently. I recently finished reading a biography of this incredible pianist and composer named Billy Strayhorn. His compositions are some of the most beautiful things you might have ever heard. His understanding of harmony and melody, and of course his piano playing, is phenomenal as well. And learning about his life is really inspiring, discovering the path that he took.
I feel like inspiration, for me, comes from a lot of people in a lot of ways. Beyond music, I loved learning about art history. I’ll read about some musician drawing inspiration from a visual artist, and I would never have thought of that connection.
When you do a bit of research into the history, it’s kind of amazing to realise how art is connected — how it’s this circle of people inspiring each other, and drawing from one another.
A saxophonist who I really like right now is Sam Gendel. I think he is really fantastic at incorporating the saxophone and electronic effects — he uses pedals, he records and alters his sound, and he produces. Those are all things that I’m trying to get a little more into as well. I would recommend Sam Gendel to anybody. It’s experimental, it’s electronic, it’s funky. If I could recommend an album that he’s on, it would be Notes With Attachments, by this bass player called Pino Palladino.
RP: Going off from these different inspirations you have, and how they have influenced your own playing. Would you say you have a favorite performance so far? A performance that was an important moment in your career, maybe, or formative in some way?
DH: I’m not much of a favourites person… But there are definitely performances that I’ve had that have stuck with me for different reasons. My first performance as a band leader, this summer, where we played almost entirely music that I had written, with a band I selected from close friends — that one was really special. You know, just the work that went into writing, and arranging, and rehearsing that music. And thinking about how I want these ideas to come through… It was extremely building: character building, musically building. It forces me to think critically about what I’m presenting.
Last summer, there was this other great experience, at one of my teacher’s shows, from U of T. His name is Andrew Downing, and he is hands-down one of the most incredible musicians and educators that I’ve ever met. He called me to play a gig with two other musicians. And you know, these are all older mid-career musicians, so the level of their musicianship is high. They’ve literally been playing their instruments longer than I’ve been alive! That experience, playing with real mentors, was really encouraging and inspiring. Humbling too! Playing for well-established musicians is daunting but so fun; it makes you overcome fears and insecurities. It’s just great.
RP: As we are a Toronto-based publication, I have to ask — what drew you to Toronto from Vancouver, and how would you describe the music scene here? And do you have any recommendation for our readers on where to go to listen to good music in the city?
DH: I think that regardless of genre, music happens and thrives where there are a lot of people. And that is Toronto, as far as Canada is concerned. There’s a huge music scene here, and Toronto’s an incredibly diverse place. There are so many different scenes of music, different styles, different venues. Toronto, in my opinion, is really an international city. And with that come a lot of opportunities, both for individual musicians and opportunity for different styles of music to flourish, and mingle with one another, and have crossovers. Opportunities for musicians to meet other kinds of artists too! Like, I just finished playing with a great tap dancer at a dance festival.
Performance art, in general, just thrives in a place in Toronto.
As for recommendations of places, the ones I play at are great!! The Rex, the Jazz Bistro, the Emmet Ray, the Tranzac. Those are the first ones that come to mind for jazz specifically. There’s definitely a lot more though! I’ve also played at more indie rock venues, like the Painted Lady, the Baby G, the Horseshoe Tavern. Drom Taberna comes to mind as well.
David Hodgson, photographed by Bjorn Kriel.
RP: Any projects coming up? Recordings, things you’ve been making lately, or gigs you’re excited about? You mentioned you have both your own band, and you play with other bands. Any things we should look out for?
DH: I’ve been very close to recording my own music this year, and it’s my biggest goal for 2023. I really want to share some music I’ve written, but I’m still kind of working on those logistics, like how to finance a studio visit, who to play with… I have a couple projects of my own. This summer has been way busier than I expected. I was open to recording this winter, but I had to put a lot of my own things on the back burner. I definitely hope to record, and put some music out, next year.
As far as shows, the one I’m most excited about was October 30th, at the Monarch Tavern. It’s a yearly concert that some friends and I put together. We play the music of the show Twin Peaks. The music is written by Angelo Badalamenti. And that’s very fun — you know, this show has been happening for a few consecutive years now. The music is really fun, it’s different from what I normally play. A little more ‘80s, a little more synthetizers; it’s textural and spooky and perfect for Halloween.
Unfortunately, as I’ve just broken my arm, I will be taking a break from shows for a while but I hope to be playing again very soon!
RP: How can we stay in the know about your future shows and projects?
DH: I am definitely most active on my Instagram. I post all my shows there, I share musical content there. I really like to think about how music and my life are closely related. Music’s not entirely my life but it’s definitely the biggest part of my life. I like sharing that with people and Instagram is definitely the first way. I do also have a website and I have a few recordings there too.
I should also say there are recordings out on streaming platforms! I’ve played on albums that have been released such as New Roots by the Adema Manoukas Octet, 10tet by Thomas Steele, and Demilan by Nick Adema.
RP: Any last thoughts to share with the Howl’s readers?
DH: I would encourage anybody who reads this to go listen to some music in Toronto, regardless of genre. To go see a band play with some friends, go experience live music, especially after COVID — there’s so much incredible music to go out and see in this city. It means so much to artists and musicians to people who come out and be supportive. You know, it’s how I make a living!
I’d also recommend people listen to some ‘jazz’, dive into the history of your own favourite music, where musicians draw from… I bet you’d find connections to people and groups who were influential in the development of jazz, particularly because so much of popular music comes out of a Black American tradition. I’d encourage [readers] to think about where our art comes from, how we consume it. To know the history, to be aware of how things happen.